tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3291522678539500772.post6127118102647523780..comments2024-01-24T05:45:35.322-05:00Comments on imagining history: sounds like bach - douglas hofstadter and formalism in classical musicDaniel MacDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07546752099879983120noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3291522678539500772.post-2714603866299692462009-11-17T13:55:22.555-05:002009-11-17T13:55:22.555-05:00Joe,
You make a good point. I was reading what I ...Joe,<br /><br />You make a good point. I was reading what I wanted to get out of it (i.e., this idea of other formalisms)and therefore I did not consider qualitative aspects, but certainly Minsky is looking for a way to incorporate these story elements into a model of Artificial Intelligence (which, of course, can include quantitative and qualitative dimensions).Daniel MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07546752099879983120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3291522678539500772.post-5683844348838118802009-11-16T11:00:57.686-05:002009-11-16T11:00:57.686-05:00Music is well beyond my comfort zone, but from wha...Music is well beyond my comfort zone, but from what I can tell from the full interview his point is not simple that we should not give up on formalism, but that this is not giving up involves supplementing it with "qualitative data." In other words, he does not seem to be saying that the solution to one formalist approach is just more formalism:<br /><br />"It's mostly the same in AI. Most hope to understand language by using compact theory-tricks, like formal grammars. But that simply <br />can't do enough by itself. You need some sort of data base, of experience. A few little stories about each word. And the same for music. Surely you can't react "properly" unless you possess some "stories" about each chord sequence, or melodic turn, or rhythmic variation."<br /><br />So the formalism in social science I was criticizing appears much different than Minksy's point, in that in the former the solution to incompleteness is just (1) more formalism or (2) strictly quantitative data. In this popular formalism "stories" are bullshit at best. I believe we have been taught that economics is strictly about causality and has nothing to do with interpretation by a number of our teachers.<br /><br />As before I think our point of disagreement is where you worry about people giving up on formalism and I worry about why someone would worry about the dominant methodology in the dominant social science.joseph göner-rebellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966239737843409047noreply@blogger.com